How Yashar Built a 10,000 Site PBN
For episode 11, I’ve brought on Yashar Ghaffarloo to talk about how he built a 10,000 site PBN, and how he’s built his SEO business up.
01:30 – How to build a 10,000 site PBN for yourself
16:46 – 3+ sneaky link building strategies
07:56 – How Yashar got started with making money and SEO
38:34 – How to build large authority sites
27:15 – Knowing when to let go of sites that aren’t working
28:44 – Building authority sites within a budget
Watch episode 11 here:
If you loved or hated this episode, leave a comment below. Yashar is also very active online, so feel free to leave questions.
Daryl Rosser: Alright, guys. Welcome back to episode number 11 of the Lion Zeal show. This week’s episode, I brought on Yashar to talk about some really sneaky link building strategies, talk about how he got started to where he is today, and talk about how he’s building up large scale authority site, some of which he’s flipped for pretty decent sums of money. I don’t want to waste any more of your time, so let’s cut straight into the interview and you can see exactly what Yashar shows. It’s about 15 minutes or so of just pure content, just lots and lots of value in there. You can learn a lot about how he actually have gotten to the state he’s at today. Alright, let’s cut straight to it. Hope you guys enjoy. Hey man. Thank you for coming on the show. It’s pretty cool to have you here.
Yashar Ghaffarloo: No problem. Nice to be here.
Daryl Rosser: Do you want to start with … For anyone that doesn’t know you already, do you want to start with a basic introduction as to who you are and what it is you’re doing?
Yashar Ghaffarloo: Sure. My name is Yashar. I do SEO marketing. I run large finance sites as well as lots of small affiliate sites as well on the side. I kind of have a Facebook called Yashar’s SEO Mastermind. I’m not as active as I should be in there but do lots of unconventional SEO stuff that no one else thinks of. I do. I run a PBN of almost 10,000 sites now. A lot of things that people don’t do or find scary I think is what I’m best at.
Building a 10,000 site PBN
Daryl Rosser: Okay. Let’s start with the 10,000 site PBN. That sounds pretty cool. How the heck do you manage 10,000 sites?
Yashar Ghaffarloo: Are you in the SEO faction?
Daryl Rosser: Yeah.
Yashar Ghaffarloo: I think I shared how to get free hosting for all 10,000 sites but it’s a lot of automation. You can’t do stuff like that manually. There is, I think, ten minutes of work per day that I put into it. In the beginning, it was a lot of tedious setting up hosts, cheap hosts, stuff like that. I kind of moved away from what everyone else was doing. I have had my own … I get free hosting from all these large companies. I report vulnerabilities to them. I get free hosting for life. I get other things, I get free hosting for life with as well. I only pay for the registration cost, which I often get discounts on because I am such a bulk buyer.
I think a lot of it boils down to automation when you’re scaling up that high. Finding domains and scaling now is a lot more difficult than it was initially. With drive domains now, they’re not the quality that you want. Everyone is racing to get drive domains now when the supply is so little. In the beginning, like three or four years ago, when it was really high, high quality domains, you could find 50 referring domains on a drive domain easily. That’s when I scaled the most but now I’m just kind of getting auctioned against what I can get but not scaling as much as I should be back then.
Daryl Rosser: Okay that makes sense. What about content and stuff? There’s no way you’re creating 500 or 1,000 word articles manually on each of these sites.
Yashar Ghaffarloo: No we’re not. Actually content, I think I discussed this before in my group, but it’s all automated. We have filler content. We have actual post content that we use for our links. The filler content, what we do is we have different methods but I’ll be happy to share one. What we do is when there’s a breaking news article, for example, there was a shooting in the nightclub in Miami. That was a terrible incident, but when that happened, there was only so much information that the news had. News, I would only test like the name, the age, all that information. They would take the same meat of the information and rehash it into their own article. What we do is we crawl stuff like that, we find it, and we take the meat of it, what all these sites have in common, and then we put our own filler content around it for all the sites. We have automation and then I think three or four articles per day per site with our different automation techniques.
As for the PBN content, we have 500-word articles mostly. We have filler content and we have VAs that come to our … It’s kind of like a panel. They come to it. They put content in it and we put filler content around it to make their 100-word articles into 500-word articles. It’s not as difficult as it seems, but initially it requires a lot of effort. But now, it’s very streamlined process.
Daryl Rosser: Yeah sounds pretty awesome. I’m sure most people are just thinking screw that, that sounds very advanced to me. Cool man. I’m kind of curious before we get into other stuff what your sort of work life is like with having this many sites. Are you working like 12, 14 hours a day? What do you have to put into the business to run it?
Yashar Ghaffarloo: I go to school as well. I work mostly until … When I come home, I go to the number one school in the state. It’s a very high competitive school. Again, it’s not the greatest, but balancing those two things I stay up until 2 AM finishing homework and from 2 to 6 AM I work on my personal life stuff. There’s not much time I have for other things. It’s a very busy schedule. I use Trello to manage all my stuff. It’s very, very efficient. It’s very systematic. As for managing sites, I have VAs that automate almost everything I do. Finding a good VA team, I think you have a course on VAs, but automating everything that you do, that if you don’t need to do it, then you should find a way to automate it and have people do what you don’t need to do unless it’s really crucial to your business, you shouldn’t be doing it.
Daryl Rosser: Awesome. How big is your team of VAs then? I guess it’s going to vary.
Yashar Ghaffarloo: So the VAs I have are not like set per month. It’s per task basis. I have a team that I have a contact with the head guy of and when I need a task I just have them do the details. He outsources it to his guys and then just does it for me. I don’t manage the VAs. I find it very tedious. Working with them one on one is not like how I like to work. A lot of them ask for bonuses and stuff like. I don’t deal with that stuff.
Daryl Rosser: Sure. It can be fun sometimes.
Yashar Ghaffarloo: Sometimes…
Daryl Rosser: I was being ironic. For the 10,000 PBN sites, what are you actually using them for?
Yashar Ghaffarloo: I have two partners on that. One of them is Hanson and one is Abby. Those two guys are my two partners on it and we have a large options trading client that we use it for. We have large personal sites that we use it for. A lot of the sites, I share some insights. A lot of those sites we don’t use our PBNs on anything. Finance and stuff like that. It’s mostly finance business journal type PBN for very competitive keywords. It’s stuff that people pay $10 per click for and stuff like that and we’re ranked number one organically across the board first page, second page, stuff like that. It’s mostly for one or two issues, but it’s complete automation advantage and it pays off.
Daryl Rosser: Awesome. How long have you been doing SEO by the way? I’m curious.
Yashar Ghaffarloo: So SEO two years seriously. I started marketing when I was like eight.
Daryl Rosser: That’s awesome man. I first got started on it like 13. You’re killing it.
Yashar Ghaffarloo: Thanks.
Daryl Rosser: When you go started with the SEO, two years ago you said, seriously, were you like a total beginner or did you have some money and some experience from the marketing side that kind of helped get into it?
How Yashar got started with making money and SEO
Yashar Ghaffarloo: The way I started was, kind of giving you a background of where I started and how I got into SEO … Back in 2008, 2009 there was a small community of YouTubers that would basically mess around on YouTube and hack accounts, stuff like that, get really cool usernames and I got usernames like 10, one zero, and like 060, like really short usernames and then I eventually created a python which finds usernames like that and registers them that were taken. I think I made like $4,000, $5,000 from that at the age of 10. That’s how I ventured into other types of marketing. Found some forms. I found a form called the bot net which is an automation form. I got banned off there several times for trolling and stuff like that but after, I kind of ventured into SEO because someone from there. They thought their idea of promoting would be SEO and I’d know, they introduced me to it, got me started. I’ve heard from the guys that have put this in action the past two years but that’s how I got my start.
Daryl Rosser: That’s a really roundabout cool way to get into it. You said you’re doing some affiliate stuff as well. I don’t know if your big sites have that, but you said you’re doing some affiliate stuff as well. Did you?
Yashar Ghaffarloo: Affiliate stuff. Yeah I do. I do some affiliate stuff, but it’s mostly throwing darts at a board and seeing what sticks instead of having actual sites built out. I think I have like 10,000 sites testing and seeing what works. It’s mostly just testing. It’s not anything that’s stable. It makes a lot of good side money that can be used for my other projects but it’s not anything that I do seriously. It’s not something I spend much time on.
Daryl Rosser: Fair enough. That’s cool. You have a really big PBN and you just said the affiliate marketing you’re constantly doing testing stuff. Would you say that a lot of your SEO knowledge comes from these little private tests that you’re doing on your own network and stuff? Do you learn a lot from that?
Yashar Ghaffarloo: You can’t trust what anyone else tells you. You have to keep in mind that people will share stuff and tell you stuff. Sometimes they have an incentive to tell you to do something and you can’t trust what anyone else tells you. You have to test yourself. If it worked, people wouldn’t tell you it works. Keep in mind that if it’s working, you’re probably not going to know about it until you find it out yourself and test it.
Daryl Rosser: For sure. All the top guys have tests going on constantly. I guess you’re doing a lot at any given time.
Yashar Ghaffarloo: Not much right now. I think it’s one or two main things, which is social signals & search CTR manipulation.
Daryl Rosser: Interesting. Stuff everyone is talking about.
Yashar Ghaffarloo: A lot of people are talking about it and there are services out there that provide stuff like that, but a lot of them are doing it incorrectly. I can get into more details if you want but-
Daryl Rosser: Go for it.
Yashar Ghaffarloo: You can’t trust the services out there.
Daryl Rosser: If I don’t let you go into it, everyone will be going crazy in the comments.
Yashar Ghaffarloo: So search CTR manipulation everyone uses a service that uses basically it’s a source of thousands of VPSs, and you run a bot on your VPS that goes into other people’s sites, clicks it, which is really stupid because if you think about it, VPS IPs are data center IPs. Data center IPs are not home IPs which leads to Google saying tons of data centers spam IPs are used for scraping, stuff like that, coming into your site. You shouldn’t be using data center IPs and services that offer peer-to-peer clicking. That’s not rational.
We have our own way of getting residential IP sets. We basically … I’m happy to share details about that as well. It’s hard to spell without giving much details, but basically the way it works is we run ads and stuff like adword media CPA and they get incentive for downloading the software and that software, part of the terms of services that they run our software and search and click our stuff with lots of legal stuff attached to it because you can’t run stuff like that without having them agree to a lot of stuff.
Daryl Rosser: Yeah. Awesome. CPA lead is one of the first things I ever did, affiliate marketing, 2009, 2010 time.
Yashar Ghaffarloo: Yeah. I have been doing CPA stuff, like that’s my first big start in SEO was CPA. I think Game Cheats/Game Hacks stuff like that. I was absolutely downgrading in 2013, 2014.
Daryl Rosser: I hacked the same sites at the same time. What were you doing back then? I am kind of curious.
Yashar Ghaffarloo: Sure. If you go on archive.org, you can find … I’ve got a picture of one of my sites that’s activefiles.org. I had a spintax that I would put the game name, the resources that wouldn’t be generated. I put the Clash of Clans as the name, and then what would be generated and it would automatically go and generate articles. If you go on the site on archive.org, you can find some information about it.
I had hundreds of those sites that were automatically posting. I also had sites ranking all the first page. Clash of Clans cheats, Clash of Clans hacks. All of those big keywords I was basically dominating every single one. It was a lot easier back then without worrying about SEO but then negative SEO, it was the reason a lot of my sites failed and how my empire of CPA sites came crashing down.
Daryl Rosser: That’s cool man. I didn’t know SEO back then. Always using YouTube and crappy techniques.
Yashar Ghaffarloo: YouTube.
Daryl Rosser: YouTube stuff.
Yashar Ghaffarloo: This is like the analyst method. Instead of using an unlisted video, and then it ranks automatically.
Daryl Rosser: I was just uploading a ton of videos with like a fixed picture and said go here to download it and stuff like that.
Yashar Ghaffarloo: Oh yeah. Those ranks, that’s like … If you scale that, that works really well.
Daryl Rosser: I had like the number one video on YouTube if you searched Farmville cheats. I probably had the top five eventually. I didn’t know SEO. I just uploaded videos.
Yashar Ghaffarloo: Did you set views and stuff like that?
Daryl Rosser: Nothing. Just uploaded.
Yashar Ghaffarloo: I used to do that with Share Cash, like way back then. That’s how I got my start with Share Cash. Then I moved onto other networks like adword. Fairly large and that kind of feel. People watching this video, you shouldn’t go into this just because it’s very dangerous because people are getting their stuff reported, people are having their sites deleted. I think I know what’s going on with that kind of stuff. I’ll be happy to share if you’d like.
Daryl Rosser: Sure.
Yashar Ghaffarloo: Those niches are very toxic right now.
Daryl Rosser: I think someone from UFC … Someone got sued by UFC for like a million dollars as well back then.
Yashar Ghaffarloo: For the livestream yeah. People like that sued for NFL stuff too. That’s why I stopped doing a lot of NFL up and motion.
Daryl Rosser: I used to do that every week.
Yashar Ghaffarloo: I used to have like every basketball game, it would automatically go and get information and post articles on news sites and it would automatically rank watch the livestream.
Daryl Rosser: Nice.
Yashar Ghaffarloo: CPA stuff like, what’s going on with the CPA industry right now is very weird. There is a group of three or four people that are going around and reporting sites with a bot. What that bot does is very simple. I know the inter workings of it but I’m not the one doing it. I have a friend that did web design for one of these people and he found out that this guy, information came in that he got in that group with them. He kind of got my name in there and I got added to the group. What they would do is export all your backlinks. You report people who haven’t paid. They would report all their links multiple times and Google will eventually look over it and see these sites that are doing paid links have all this site as an outbound link in common and they would go ahead and remove them. A lot of these sites have links that are not really the best quality. They’re not the most natural. That’s what’s happening right now. I think I shared this method with my own group but it’s not a good field to be in right now.
I was going to go in that field just for fun again, but after what’s going on right now, people are getting their sites reported every single day and it’s not even lasting a couple of days until the sites are down.
Daryl Rosser: Yikes. Either that or you’re just telling everyone to stay out of it. We don’t know.
Yashar Ghaffarloo: Yeah.
Daryl Rosser: Cool man. Let’s switch back to SEO. I don’t think that many people are doing CPA stuff anyway. You said you’re doing some really interesting link building type stuff. Do you want to go a little bit into that?
Sneaky Link-Building Strategies
Yashar Ghaffarloo: Sure. One of the things I’m doing right now is sites like Apple, AT&T, Microsoft, Google, you can’t get links on those larger sites without techniques that are unconventional. What I do is I find vulnerabilities in their sites. You should find the XSS or a vulnerability in their site, even if it’s very small. If you report it to them, they’ll go ahead and give you a link on their security page. Their security page has links from other sites that have … Other people have got links on that page that link back. They also have internal links. It’s very powerful.
Apple, for example, if you go on Apple, I think I’m on there like eight times. My name is on there eight times under different aliases as well for affiliated sites. On AT&T, like ten times for different aliases as well. Things that everyone else ends up doing is kind of the best way to get power. If you go on Ahrefs, you can only find so much information about a competitor site. Most people hire PBNs nowadays. You have to find other opportunities that no one else is doing. One of the things that I’m doing that is kind of helping me realize stuff like that and no one else is able to man these links and you can hire some of them to go find stuff like this for you for like 100, 200 bucks. They could probably do something like that for I’m not sure about that but there are things that you can do that no one else is doing that helps you the most. Blog comments, web people know this, stuff like that is only going to last so much. Everyone else is doing it. You can’t get much from that anymore these days.
Daryl Rosser: Do you want to give any hints of any other ideas? Totally up to you.
Yashar Ghaffarloo: Shoot. I’m not sure what I can share. But … There is a CMS that’s like on all these … This is going to be very unethical but-
Daryl Rosser: Go for it man.
Yashar Ghaffarloo: There’s a funeral home, a CMS that all funeral homes use.
Daryl Rosser: Yikes. Starting funeral homes. Keep going.
Yashar Ghaffarloo: I was able to get in touch with one of these funeral home CMS owners and I have a health spiritual wellness stuff like that. I contacted him and was like hey in your update can you include a link to my sites in the footer of every single page on this CMS and he was like yeah. I got on a call with him. I paid him 500 bucks and on the update for all these funeral homes now is a link to my site. These are really relevant links. I think almost 2 million links from like 400 different domains now because I paid this CMS owner 500 bucks and he included a link on the footer of all these domains. They’re very relevant links as well. Footer links still work. You have to find unconventional ways of doing stuff like that.
Another way to get links is WordPress Themes. If you publish a WordPress Theme. What we did back then was we published, you took a simple designer, paid him $500, get a WordPress Theme, very simple. We get lots of WordPress Installations done on our one server. We boosted the number of downloads that this theme had and then we’d go on the popular sites on WordPress and we could see our theme was the top one. We had tons of actual authentic installs. Stuff like that works very well. You should be doing unconventional things that no one else is doing to get the most power.
Daryl Rosser: Awesome. I don’t think most people are doing anything like that. I’m sure some people may be freaked out by the technicalities but some of it is not that complex like creating your own themes and stuff or paying some guy $500.
Yashar Ghaffarloo: Breaking the big stuff down into steps that you can follow is the easy way to make it. It’s not that hard. You can do outreach and find other stuff like that. It’s not that hard actually.
Daryl Rosser: Awesome. How many money sites do you have these days? Sounds like a lot. Probably don’t even know the number.
Yashar Ghaffarloo: Actually money sites, maybe four or five. Other sites that I have built out that haven’t done well, thousands. I have thousands of sites that are just completely failing. I spent thousands of dollars and are completely done. I think I have like four, five, maybe ten if you count the other sites that are kind of doing well. Not that many actual money sites. I focus on smaller sites and then like folks on smaller number of sites and focusing a lot of time on them versus having a lot of sites and having to manage all those.
Daryl Rosser: That’s really interesting actually. What is the reason you’d call a site a failure? Is it that it’s not making money? Is it that it’s not ranking well? The thousands of sites, what’s wrong with them?
Yashar Ghaffarloo: I’ve done lots of tests on those. They’re mostly there from testing. There are quite a few sites that I spend like tens of thousands of dollars on that just completely failed. Like for example what I used to do back then, this is another method that you can go ahead and look for. High information links, I spent I think $20,000 or $30,000. They add a link to your site on the sidebar and no one else has these links. Very few people have these links but they’re very high end links. I spent maybe $30,000 getting links like these on one site and the site didn’t rank at all. A lot of these sites that are like thousands of sites that are failed are test sites, blogs, but there are some that I spent a lot of time and money on that just ended up not working out.
Daryl Rosser: I guess that’s part of the process you have to accept.
Yashar Ghaffarloo: Yeah.
Daryl Rosser: How did you go from being this CPA marketer kid to blowing $30,000 on donation links as a test and it failed and not really care and moving on? How did you go to having that sort of budget that you could do that?
Yashar Ghaffarloo: So in the CPA niche, I was working a lot of time and spending it building sites out. At one point I had complete domination with CPA niche. Again, people will say I had this one site ranking number 1 for this keyword. I had thousands of sites ranking for hundreds of key words. There’s a network called ad work media. They made a club for me. It’s called the top earner club. When I log into my account, it says top earner club and I’m the only member of it. I made a lot of money off CPA and that’s how I got testing, building a PBN. I had a small VPN when I was doing CPA sites but they were not nearly as powerful or the quality what I have right now.
I think dominated being something that I did not want to be in that CPA, getting out as soon as possible, is kind of how I got my funding for what I was doing today. $30,000 is still a lot of money. I can’t just blow it on links and not feel something. I felt like really bad about it but you can’t dwell on stuff like that. You need to move on.
Daryl Rosser: For sure. That makes sense. I’m actually curious, and you probably don’t want to share it, but what sorts of numbers you’re doing on some of your sites. Totally your trace. I’m just curious. If you’re doing test sites and spending $20,000 or $30,000, what are you doing on your biggest sites?
Yashar Ghaffarloo: Biggest sites … I can tell you what I’ve spent on them and I can tell you that they’re making more than what I spent on them. Every two months, I make like 100k from one site that I have. It’s a financial site. It’s a newsletter that we run. We sell leads for finance related keywords. I don’t want to give too much details because I think people go out and dig and find this site and that’s what we’re using. One of our PBNs is just on that site. I think 2,000 or 3,000 people are on that site alone but it’s a financial site. We sell email leads to buyers.
Daryl Rosser: Awesome. How long has it taken to build this sort of stuff up then, like the very big sites like that especially?
Yashar Ghaffarloo: Big sites … A lot of it is partner work. I don’t build a lot of sites out. I have people build the sites out for me. Focus on the content, focus on the automation. I hook the automation and link building. I’m not good at content generation. I usually buy content and have people partners that are good with that and where I focus is link building and automation. I don’t do building these sites out. A lot of them, I think the big one took a year a year and a half to start getting traction and for us to get our initial investment back. It really depends on the site.
Daryl Rosser: Makes sense. How do you decide then to build, especially a big financial site or something, it sounds like you’re going after like mega competitive key words. What do you decide? What goes in your head before you decide to build out like a huge site like this? Smaller affiliates, smaller SEOs is going to have to look affiliate buyer phrases. What’s the difference between going after smaller affiliate sites versus like a huge terms and sites like that?
Yashar Ghaffarloo: A lot of the difference is planning what you’re going to do. Having month two I’m going to be doing this, month three I’m going to be doing this, and if this doesn’t work I’m going to be doing that. You need to have a plan of action that you’re going to take. You can’t just build a site. Most people they build the site out, throw links at it, see what works, if it doesn’t work they just leave it or do something else with it. We have for these larger sites, if you’re spending a lot of money on it you can have a plan of action. Month three I’m going to build 40 links from blog comments. I’m going to have the VA go and 40 forum per thousand posts on the forum. If this isn’t working and I’m not here by this time, go back and revise the plan to include this or consider this stuff.
We have for our larger sites, and a site I’m going to build out. I’ve already planned out the whole year for it and the whole plan of action. You need to have that systematic route that you’re going to take. You can’t just throw shit at a wall and see what sticks. You need to have, if you’re spending that much money and time on it you need to have something that …. If this, then that. You can’t just see what works.
Daryl Rosser: Awesome. What’s the most money then that you’ve ever wasted on a test site, a site that didn’t work out?
Yashar Ghaffarloo: Okay so $60,000 maybe. It was for … Yeah I think $60,000. A lot of it was buying a domain that was aged I think $20,000 of that money was spent on buying a domain that was aged or very relevant. It didn’t work out. We spent a lot of time, I think I spent 40 or 50 hours just scheduling content on that domain. This is a domain that I didn’t outsource anything to. I kind of did all myself and felt very close to it. It just didn’t work out. You can’t stick to stuff like that if it doesn’t work out. There comes a point where you just have to let go of the site. You can’t hold onto something even though you spent a lot of time and money on it, you can’t just hold on to it if you know it’s not going to work out.
Knowing when to let go of sites that aren’t working
Daryl Rosser: Yeah. That makes sense. Must be a pretty tough call as well to do something like that.
Yashar Ghaffarloo: Yeah. It’s tough.
Daryl Rosser: How do you actually decide when it isn’t working when you’re doing that?
Yashar Ghaffarloo: When you have tried everything that you can think of and everything that you’ve planned and if you don’t see results by then it’s time to move on.
Daryl Rosser: Definitely. Pretty good advice for anything. If someone is starting out and they don’t have $60,000 to put into test sites and stuff like that, which obviously you didn’t have when you first started out so I’m not saying anything like that, but they’re on like a budget of a couple thousand dollars or something, what do you recommend someone actually starting out with on that sort of budget? With building their own sites.
Building authority sites within a budget
Yashar Ghaffarloo: I think the best thing is to build a small authority site. Even if it’s very small, it’s a good investment because you can build off it. When that small site is making money, you don’t have to just ditch that small site and think it was just a test site. Just get some initial income. You can build off what you have been doing. Don’t blow that small affiliate site and instead try and build a small authority site that focuses on one main industry and once you’ve … Let’s say you’ve spent all the 2K you have and the site is making $100 a month now, you can re-invest that money into the site without having to spend that $100 a month into something else because that’s small, from this point 2K was the test site. Build something out that’s a long term property that you are going to spend your initial money on and then after it’s making money you can build up on top of what you’ve already put. Don’t spend money on like temporary stuff. Instead build a long term plan out and plan out what you’re going to do. Once the site is making this much money, then you can reinvest that money into the same site.
Daryl Rosser: Cool. Yeah that makes sense. What about link building? Would you say PBNs and stuff? Would you call that long term?
Yashar Ghaffarloo: It’s tough. A lot of people build PBNs that are not well built out. If you don’t know how to build out a PBN properly then you shouldn’t be in PBNs just because everyone is doing it doesn’t mean you should be doing it. There are lots of free ways to get links. You can build a foreign profile and start commenting on mom blogs and stuff like that. You don’t need to spend money to get links. If you know how to build a PBN out and you’ve kind of learned the ropes, I think go ahead and build a PBN out but just because everyone else is doing it, you shouldn’t be doing it. If you don’t know how to do it, don’t go out and throw money in especially if you’re on a limited budget don’t spend your money on testing. Instead make sure you know everything about it first and then go ahead and dive in.
Daryl Rosser: Awesome. That’s really awesome advice. I’m kind of wondering, what would you say you’re the best at out of what you do?
Yashar Ghaffarloo: Doing things that people say can’t be done I think is what I do the best. A lot of these sites that I have started out, the idea came from people saying I failed in this space after spending this much money and this much time. That’s how I get my motivation. If people can’t do it, then I think my motivation is doing what people can’t do. I have been pretty successful at that.
Daryl Rosser: Awesome. You’re motivated by what people say you can’t do.
Yashar Ghaffarloo: Yeah.
Daryl Rosser: If someone wants to build a PBN and I’ll totally plug, I have some really awesome free training on PBNs, if someone doesn’t want to follow my approach, do you recommend they follow your approach and build out like a huge PBN and automate stuff? Depending on what budget you’re on.
Yashar Ghaffarloo: If you know nothing about PBNs, build something out first and make sure that you do something to fail because only then do you understand what it feels like to lose all your sites and … You get a greater appreciation for what you have. Instead of saying I’m not going to fail, then when you’re on a larger scale you can’t afford to make mistakes like that. Make sure you start out smaller, use your guide, and once you’re large and confident in your skills, six to eight months out, you’re doing well, the PBNs are ranking well, only then should you go out and spend time and money on automation. If you have no experience in it, don’t go all in on automation if you don’t know what you’re doing.
Daryl Rosser: Yeah. Makes sense. If you invest all this money and you screw something up, it’s a lot of money to lose. I guess you’ve got some experience with that. I guess you have to lose some money sooner or later. Do you have like a testing budget that you don’t mind losing for tests?
Yashar Ghaffarloo: The testing budget comes from other test sites. The testing budget comes from tests that are doing well. I don’t spend a lot of personal money on testing sites anymore. A lot of test sites I built out are doing fairly well I have affiliate sites like I mentioned, they’re generating mid-five figures a month that I can spend on other tests. It’s very sporadic. If some month I make 30k from test sites and some I make zero dollars. I put in the same amount I put in the other month. It’s largely based on how the sites are doing. If the test sites aren’t doing well, I will put some more of my own money but if they’re doing well then all the better.
Daryl Rosser: Awesome. Makes sense.
Yashar Ghaffarloo: I have a set limit on how much I spend on test per month though. It’s not an unlimited budget, I don’t have all the money in the world to go spend on test sites. I have a set amount per month I do.
Daryl Rosser: Fair enough. Do you want to share what it is?
Yashar Ghaffarloo: It’s like … I do not know.
Daryl Rosser: I’m kind of curious, flipping back
and forth here, I’m kind of curious when you first go started with online marketing stuff. Was that the CPA stuff or were you doing something before that?
Yashar Ghaffarloo: First starting when I was on YouTube when I made a bot that would find available usernames that were really cool. That kind of made me a couple thousand dollars and from there I started CPA sites and kind ofgaming sites. I started with Runescape but Runescape server didn’t do so well so I made Runescape cheats and hacks and I based branch out there and made other game hacks.
Daryl Rosser: Okay. That kind of built your cash flow. I guess when you’ve made that first YouTube username tool, you weren’t like sitting there with a budget of $10,000 to play with or anything.
Yashar Ghaffarloo: It was like 4 or 5 thousand dollars. It wasn’t all the money in the world but it was still enough for me to get started.
Daryl Rosser: Awesome. So you just built your way up very very slowly.
Yashar Ghaffarloo: Right.
Daryl Rosser: You said you have partners on your big sites. Is that right?
Yashar Ghaffarloo: Most big sites I have partners.
Daryl Rosser: How did you get into those partnerships? How did that come about?
Yashar Ghaffarloo: Finding a partner is tough. You should not give … I think one of the biggest things with partners is you cannot split equally. Most people think, oh we’re in a partnership we’re going to split 50-50. That is the worst thing that you can do. You don’t split equally, that is the worst thing you can do unless you can make sure that they’re equal to what you’re doing.
Daryl Rosser: Yeah.
Yashar Ghaffarloo: My partners I found are from very very early days of when I started my sites out. They were people I met on forums and from there I built relationships and only after building relationships did I trust them enough with building the site out that I go ahead and build my larger sites with them. I did not find someone in a forum and them say hey two days after do you want to build a partner site. You should not do that. Most go south because one partner does not do something or does not fulfil their progress and make sure that there’s enough percentage for them to make sure that they’re motivated to continue in working, but don’t split 50-50 unless you’re sure that they’re doing half the work as well. A lot of partnerships, you know, we’re going to split equally, but then eventually you find yourself doing a lot more work than they are. A lot of partnerships I own like 70-30, 60-40, stuff like that but I don’t give 50-50 for people that are just building content on the site.
Daryl Rosser: Is that mostly what they bring to the table? Content creators, they set up the sites. How does that work?
Yashar Ghaffarloo: They find content creators, they find and filter out … We try and find authors that have a persona and write for a site every day to keep fresh content on the blog part of it so you can build out the affiliate pages without worrying about content and stuff like that. They manage all that. They manage finding people to do stuff for me. Then sometimes they build stuff out and do other small tasks, but that’s mainly they’re job and to keep track of all these people so I don’t have to. I focus on automation and links.
Daryl Rosser: Awesome. So you get to focus on what you do best and they take care of everything else.
Yashar Ghaffarloo: Right.
Daryl Rosser: Do you have multiple partners then for different sites?
Yashar Ghaffarloo: I have two partners right now. I have one partner from my Wall Street article site and I have one partner for a lot of … He makes PBNs that kind of houses the PBNs.
Daryl Rosser: Awesome. When you got out of the CPA stuff, you had this money to invest. Did you go out there and-
Yashar Ghaffarloo: Sorry, I should clarify. For the PBNs, I have one partner that kind of manages it and one partner that I’m splitting the cost with and stuff like that. Sorry.
Building Large Authority Sites
Daryl Rosser: No big deal. No one is going to really care that much but it’s probably better to … When you got out of the CPA stuff and you got into the SEO stuff, did you immediately go out there and build these big sites or did you start off with smaller sites and then slowly build your way up to that?
Yashar Ghaffarloo: I started off with smaller authority sites and focusing on like small affiliate games, you know, Adsense. And then I didn’t find much success in that, building out sites on one key word. I didn’t find much success in that. I found myself spending lots of time and effort and the sites would not rank. I kind of found that people were making lots of money with the authorities sites. I had kind of a passion for finance, passion for stocks, penny stocks, stuff like that, so I built out sites based on that and that’s where I am right now.
Daryl Rosser: Okay. Makes a lot of sense. That’s cool. One thing that I think would be interesting especially for other people that are quite young. You said you’re selling leads off the financial sites and stuff. How did you say, I don’t know if you said, how old are you right now?
Yashar Ghaffarloo: I turned 16 like two weeks ago.
Daryl Rosser: 16. Cool. Nice. Does it matter your age at all when you’re dealing with big companies and stuff like that? Does it ever come up?
Yashar Ghaffarloo: Yes. One issue that I have is people don’t take you seriously when you’re young. I think that’s a huge issue. The biggest issue is sometimes people value your age but more often than not people kind of say oh this guy is 16, what does he know? People don’t take you seriously when you’re young even though you know. I don’t think age is a factor basically if you have experience in what you’re doing, and someone has half the experience but they’re twice as old as you, people will take the other person. A lot of people associate age with immaturity and that is sometimes the case. I’m more mature than maybe some other people but experience is a lot. Experience and innovation is what you can find in your other partners and older people just don’t have that I think. People dismiss you if you’re young. If you’re young and people are doing that to you, to me when I was initially starting out don’t give up. If you build a name for yourself like I have, people will take you seriously. Ignore people saying. Yeah.
Daryl Rosser: Nice. That’s really good advice. I guess you are over it in the end. I assume it doesn’t come up so much now.
Yashar Ghaffarloo: Not as much but in the beginning it used to come up a lot, yeah.
Daryl Rosser: Yeah. That makes sense. You’re pretty well known for saying controversial stuff. Would you agree with that?
Yashar Ghaffarloo: I believe so.
Daryl Rosser: You say a lot of controversial stuff. Do you want to say some controversial SEO type stuff like to do with rankings or strategies people are doing or at least hint at some interesting things that you get some attention. Annoy people.
Yashar Ghaffarloo: Negative SEO. Your competitors don’t care about you. Know that okay? If your competitor has the chance to wipe you … If they’re number two and you’re number one, if they have the option to wipe you out of being number one, they will. And likewise. I don’t do negative SEO unless I get hit with it first. I don’t like to create drama but if you’re getting hit don’t sit there and build a new site out and disavow and do nothing after that. Make sure the person knows that you need to be taken seriously. Kind of assert yourself and make sure that they know that, whether it means negative SEO or whether it doesn’t mean negative SEO, whether it means finding out who owns the site and contacting them personally, calling their parents, stuff like that. I’ve done that in the past. Make sure that people know that if you’re being attacked, don’t take it lightly. It’s kind of like blackmail. No, it’s not like blackmail. It’s the opposite of blackmail.
With blackmail, if you reply they’ll attack you more. But it’s the opposite with negative SEO. If you don’t reply, they’ll attack you more. Make sure that they … I’m not saying I’m doing negative SEO but make sure to consider the options on the table. Don’t sit back and let people negative SEO you without any consequences.
Daryl Rosser: Awesome. Yeah. Makes sense. Didn’t you do a video before on how to find out who negative SEOd you?
Yashar Ghaffarloo: I did yes. I think it’s in the Proper PBN Group which I no longer have access to because I have been banned.
Daryl Rosser: I was going to ask you for a link so I could refer it out for anyone that is curious.
Yashar Ghaffarloo: No. I think I have a local copy that I may share later. A lot of these, I can give you a quick run-down if you want. On Ahrefs, go look for guest comments, Korean, Chinese, stuff like that. A lot of these CMS’s have the IP of the poster and people usually use proxies and like people use proxies but they buy proxies to not just negative SEO your site but they also buy them to do their own. When you go on clean talk and find out what the person with the IP is posting, you can find out that they’re posting comments for your site but you also find out that they’re posting comments for their site as well. It’s hard to explain without a video and showing you exactly how it works but basically they’re not buying a VPS and proxy just to attack your site. They’re probably helping their own site as well and clean talk. They keep track of what the person posts. The anchor, the URL, you can find out what other sites they own and contact them personally.
Daryl Rosser: Awesome. I think we’re running quite late so let me ask some last questions and we can wrap it up. Okay it will be kind of interesting. What is your plan going forward? You’re still in full time education aren’t you?
Yashar Ghaffarloo: I am, yeah.
Daryl Rosser: That’s awesome man that you’re still running that business on the side. That’s really cool. Where can people find you then if they want to learn more about what you’re doing?
Yashar Ghaffarloo: It’s kind of weird because my SEO blog has been taken down. I owned the blog SEO.gl but that GL domain authority whatever, they found some issues. Someone reported my site. Someone reported my domain so I’m working with them to resolve it and get my domain back. You can go SEO.gl, I have one post on my blog that’s not that great. You can find me on Facebook as well Yashar Ghaffarloo. It’s hard to spell. You can copy and paste.
Daryl Rosser: I’ll include a link for it. Awesome man. Any last thoughts before we wrap it up? Any words of wisdom or controversial things that will get some clicks for me? Whatever you want to end it with.
Yashar Ghaffarloo: Sure I mean anything in general?
Daryl Rosser: Anything you could tell everyone to just fuck off if you wanted to. Whatever you want to end the interview with.
Yashar Ghaffarloo: This is very cliché, but don’t give up if you have an obstacle. Actually can I give a small story?
Daryl Rosser: Sure yeah go for it.
Yashar Ghaffarloo: I bought a premium domain that was like $5,000, $6,000. I was building out the brand on Facebook, Instagram, and stuff like that. I was building out the pages for that. With Facebook you need to have like 25 likes on your page. I shared my page URL and said can you like this post? Some asshole when I had seven likes took the username on another page. I was very pissed. I was like I was building a brand and I was very excited. This was like three weeks ago and I was about to give up on a project that I planned. It’s a small road bump but it doesn’t mean that you’re not going to succeed. Don’t give up. Looking back right now, in the heat of the moment that was a huge issue, but is it going to matter a month from now, a year from now? No it’s not. Don’t give up. It’s very cliché, but don’t give up.
Daryl Rosser: No it’s awesome advice and you’ve been at this for years so you’ve played that first hand. All right man, thank you for coming on the show. This has been really cool. We’ve got some cool nuggets and stuff and pretty advanced stuff I’m sure for some people. But it was really fun.
Yashar Ghaffarloo: Thanks man. Glad to be here.
Daryl Rosser: Alright let me wrap this up. Guys thanks for tuning in and I’ll see you guys in next week’s episode.