For episode 50 of the show, I’ve got a very special episode with a special guest, who unfortunately didn’t want to be named.
Name aside though, nothing else is held back in this interview.
You’ll see exactly how their business runs today, what Mr X is working on, and of course… how he made $22,000 in a day when he was only 17 years old.
Links and Resources Mentioned:
- 2:14 – How Mr X used spam to get millions of visitors on his affiliate websites
- 19:30 – How Mr X scales his time so he doesn’t need to do SEO himself
- 9:29 – What Mr X is working on today
- 3:20 – The real story behind Mr X and how he got his start
Need help growing your SEO business? Click here to have Daryl personally coach you.
Daryl Rosser: Hey, guys. Daryl here. Welcome back to another …
Matt Diggity: All right. Hey guys. Welcome back to another episode of the Lion Zeal show. I’m Matt Diggity. Today I’m interviewing Daryl Rosser. I’m going to be talking about how he got into SEO. What’s going on with his business these days and basically how he lives his life. Ready?
All right, Daryl. Thanks for joining us today.
Daryl Rosser: Thanks for having me, man. I’ve been watching this show for a while and I’m a big fan.
Matt Diggity: For those people that are watching that have never met you before or heard about you before, can you just give us a brief introduction and tell us what it is that you do?
Daryl Rosser: Sure. So I guess most people know me as like the Lion Zeal guy. So I have the community there. The Facebook group and everything where I basically help SEOs build up an SEO agency and teach them the basics of SEO today in 2017, and then also I have my own SEO agency, which I kind of neglected a lot recently but I’m more into like PPL these days, so generating leads for local clients mostly in the UK.
Matt Diggity: Got it. All right. So you’re a pretty young dude. How old are you?
Daryl Rosser: Twenty-four.
Matt Diggity: Twenty-four. But you’re no stranger to internet marketing. How long have you been doing internet marketing before?
Daryl Rosser: I’d say around eight years.
Matt Diggity: Okay.
Daryl Rosser: Yeah. Seven, eight years.
Matt Diggity: Okay. That’s quite a long time. You’ve been doing it since you were 16. What did that look like when you were 16?
Daryl Rosser: Not good. I mean, the first time I ever did it, I set up like one site. Tried it for two or three weeks and I was like “Okay, this isn’t working. Quit.” But when I actually get into doing it properly, this was 2009, 2010 or so actually doing this properly, and it was like this thing called CPA Leads. I don’t know if you heard of it.
Matt Diggity: Mm-hmm.
Daryl Rosser: Yeah. It was just really spammy sort of stuff. It was like “Download these free cheats” for whatever game and complete a survey to unlock it. It would work really, really well back then but it wasn’t exactly a long term business.
Matt Diggity: Okay. You’ve told me in confidence about this a little bit before and …
Daryl Rosser: Yeah.
Matt Diggity: Maybe I can get you to open up a little bit about it, on this show, so tell me about it. I think you made quite a bit of money from it, right?
How Mr X used spam to get millions of visitors on his affiliate websites
Daryl Rosser: Yeah. So the thing with it was is that one day it’d be insane and the next day it’d be like nothing because it just wasn’t long term like we were doing Facebook spammer stuff. It was like jacking, so they clicked to play a video.
They think they’re playing a video but actually what happens is it automatically likes it so that all their friends see it on Facebook, stuff like that. So that would go crazy viral. We’d have a few million visitors in a few weeks and then it would drop to zero the next day because Facebook shut it down, and from doing different things like that and non-Facebook viral type marketing stuff, we had to some crazy days.
Our best day was a Microsoft point site, which was around $22,000 in revenue in a day, which was mostly all profit. We had very little cost except for about $2000 a month in hosting. We had multiple five figure days and then also we’d have days where it was like $100 or $200, $300. Low days because nothing really happened. It was pretty insane. We made hundreds of thousands. 2010 was a big year for it.
Matt Diggity: That’s pretty wild for a 16 year old. Did you cash out at the right time? Did you get out of there safe and clean?
The real story behind Mr X and how he got his start
Daryl Rosser: The opposite. So I started out when I was 16 and I was making $3-$5K a month on my own, doing this completely on my own and then I had already met this guy who did bullet marketing maybe a couple years before that and he was doing pretty well.
To me, he seemed like a baller. He spent a lot of money. Had an American Express Centurion card, like the black card. I thought this guy was balling. He offered to put in $20K into my business, which I didn’t care about. I didn’t need an extra $20K but you offered to put that into my business and to advise me and help me grow in skill even more, which seemed like a no brainer at the time. Why not?
I did that with him. We scaled the business quite a lot, mostly doing spammy stuff like I was already doing and I turned 17 in 2010 and that’s when we started the company then. We grew it from doing $3 to $5K a month depending on what was happening to by the end of the year our revenue was like nearly $800K and I already forgot what the question was now.
What happened was he ended up, basically we had a big disagreement about money. We were spending it stupidly and I was kind of annoyed that he was happy to spend it stupidly one way and I wanted to take some money out to insure my car which is going to be $2000 for some reason. It was ridiculous expensive.
He was disagreeing with me about doing it and we were just arguing about stuff and then it all kind of got shook up, all this one time because of this one thing and everything of came out all at once.
We ended up basically deciding to stop working together and then one day, because originally we worked in an office together and I didn’t go in for a couple things because all this stuff was happening. I went in to go and see him and I tried logging into one of my Go Daddy account I think it was and the login wouldn’t work.
I tried to reset the password. It doesn’t have an account in that email address. I tried checking with the bank. They were like nothing. Basically he took everything. I ended up because I was kind of stupid to spend all the money that came in, I ended up with maybe about 10 pounds in my bank account.
Matt Diggity: Oh man. That’s a rough lesson for a young kid to learn but in some ways are you kind of grateful that it happened then and not when the stakes are bigger when you’re an adult?
Daryl Rosser: Sure actually. I think it’s one of the best lessons that I got, that I got really soon, and now I think as a result of that, I was talking with Jonathan from PDM Butler about this recently, because that sort of thing happens, you have such a massive appreciation of money and the results and if and when it starts coming back in again and also you think much more longer term because I don’t want to lose it again. I’ve already gone through that. I don’t want it to happen again.
Matt Diggity: It makes a lot of sense. I just had to say that. I completely agree. At least it happen and you have a lot of gratitude now for sure. So you must have taken a break after that. That must have been pretty disheartening. So did you stop doing IM for a bit or did you stay in it?
Daryl Rosser: No, I went in straight and did the exact same thing again. Straight back into it. Pretty much from day one. Soon as I realized it happened, I was like okay I need to do this again. I had no money, right, so I started off by developing some tools. It was like a Facebook plug in or a Facebook app something like, a spammy one like we were using before.
I already built that one when we were doing Facebook gaps so I sold that for $30, $40, $50 each. I can’t remember how much exactly. I made about $1000 after selling that which got me some capital to reinvest. I did that in December, January so straight away. I raised a quick $1000 from that. Then I started using that money to start building up more sites.
Between January to March, April, those are the best three months of the year. I made some decent enough money again. Nothing too insane but maybe $15,000. We had a $4000 day from some Facebook like jacking spam again. It got me started again a little bit.
Matt Diggity: So between the time when you got knocked on your butt and then you got back on your feet again. Like how long did that take? At the point where you’re like I’m back. I’m back in it.
Daryl Rosser: Less than a month. Then three months later again after that or months later after that it kind of went downhill again.
Matt Diggity: Sure. This is SEO right?
Daryl Rosser: Yeah.
Matt Diggity: Cool man. Another question, a little bit off topic. What would you say is your biggest SEO accomplishment? Go ahead and brag to me. Maybe it’s in terms of the hardest key word you rank for. The fastest you ranked. Or the most you made in a month. Go ahead and brag. I’m giving you permission.
Daryl Rosser: In terms of keywords and ranking nothing is that insane because it’s all local stuff. So I never ranked anything that competitive except for just like product names on a national level, which is probably the most competitive that I’ve ever really gone. I guess the coolest thing was my first ever client. So this is back in 2013, May I think.
This client came to me and I was convinced I needed to sell ad wares because I didn’t know how to do SEO. But he was like why don’t we just do both? I was like okay. I could do that I guess. I charged him $1000 a month initially and it was maybe two or three weeks later, I think it was maybe three weeks, that I got him ranked number one.
It was on page one already but way down the bottom, like eighth or something. We got him to position one in like two or three weeks just from a couple PBN links and some basic on page tweaks.
Matt Diggity: Good job man. That had to feel good.
Daryl Rosser: That’s why I got into this.
Matt Diggity: Oh nice man. Great story. I talked to you before about your affiliates/lead gen model. I thought that was super interesting. Do you care to share with the audience how that works and how to break that down?
What Mr X is working on today
Daryl Rosser: There are two different sides of it, it’s the same sort of thing but basically I’m working with companies, either local companies or national companies, mostly in the UK to generate leads for them and leads meaning like a phone call or an appointment book or something like that.
On a local level, it’s just a local client and maybe it would be based in London or Manchester or whatever else. They will pay me $50 maybe $100 a lead and for every phone call I generate for them, they will pay me $50 or $100 for that.
On a national level, it’s usually for an affiliate network or something where I just find the network, find an offer for a network and again it has the same sort of payouts, way, way weaker though. So normally they will pay maybe $20 or less per week but you negotiate with them and do some good leads initially then they’ll have it doubled for me by doing that.
What I do is I go and rank on a local level. So I’ve been working with a plumber and I’m going to generate leads in London then I just go right for plumbers London and then forward the leads over to this company that will pay me anywhere from $50 to $100 or more per lead.
Matt Diggity: So you take a national based search. They are looking for national leads and you just break it down to the local level and make it simpler, at least for ranking, at least for yourself, right?
Daryl Rosser: Yeah, pretty much.
Matt Diggity: Okay, cool. For someone who would want to get started in this kind of thing, how do you choose the niche?
Daryl Rosser: I like home improvement. I can’t say exactly … I don’t know, just kind of playing around with it but home improvement in general, I really like especially sort of higher end stuff. So I’m going to generate a lead for a client.
I want them to be making $10,000, $20,000, $30,000, $40,000 for every sale I get them because then it’s so easy to press the leads high and also when someone searches, it’s a pretty direct response. If someone searches for a plumber in London than they are looking for a plumber in London. Something like that where people are searching out the product, are going to buy it.
They are already interested by searching it. They have already shown a commitment so it’s just really easy to generate the leads and obviously they are going to make a boat load of money off the back of it.
Anything home improvement related is kind of my sort of niche.
Matt Diggity: Makes sense. 100%. Okay, cool. Like right now, how much would you say your total income is generated by this affiliate slash lead gen model?
Daryl Rosser: As a percentage? Like half of it. Might be a bit less these days.
Matt Diggity: So you’re pretty darn involved with it. It sounds like it’s a pretty cool strategy. Thanks for sharing it first of all.
Daryl Rosser: It’s cool stuff.
Matt Diggity: So anyone that’s on your mailing list or follows you on Facebook, probably knows that you’re doing a lot of hiring right now. A lot of apprentices. What are you up to right now Darryl? What’s you with you?
Daryl Rosser: It’s just kind of a realization I guess that I can’t do everything for myself. It’s an obvious realization but I just tried to do everything for a long time and even with VA’s, VA’s aren’t the same. It doesn’t even compare.
So just like I need to scale up and it’s the fastest way to do it. What we’re scaling is Lion Zeal mostly so I just hired CJ and we’re working on building a new agency together. But it’s just hiring for different roles, like Lion’s Zeal and adding all these different services and products and just scale right? I can’t do it for myself.
Matt Diggity: Sure yeah. So tell me a little bit more about the agency. What is your goal with it? Are you serving a specific niche? What is happening with the agency?
Daryl Rosser: Not really that. It’s completely counterintuitive to what I usually teach. So we’re picking niches. We’re picking a certain niche for ad campaigns and for outreach and stuff. Also if people contact us, we’ll take it on. Any niche. We don’t really care.
We’re not that picky. But in terms of what we’re doing in terms of outreach, we are picking a niche. I deal with that, it’s just a scale up like it’s something I know extremely well so it can make that multiple five figures pretty easily I’m sure and what it also does is it gives us pretty awesome data to share with the Lion’s Zeal people so we can do some test campaigns.
We can send some emails out. We can do some Facebook ads and stuff like that. Later on, when we’ve got some more data from this, we can show like hey here is the ads that didn’t work. Here are the one that did work. Here is the following we did for that. It actually gives us all this data that we can share for everyone else to see.
Matt Diggity: Yeah, sounds great. This isn’t your first … I don’t know … what’s the expression? First ride on this pony? I’m bad at this kind of thing but you’ve done this before. You made agencies before. In your experience, what is the biggest typical challenges with setting up an agency and how are you going to overcome this time around?
Daryl Rosser: Well setting up is honestly is getting the first client I guess. Most people spend a month or two months setting up this great website, come out with a cool brand name, design their logo, doing everything it’s useful and helpful to get in that proper image setup and then you don’t go out there and email anyone or make any calls or ask anyone to work with them or anything like that.
Matt Diggity: Sure. You’ve got to put yourself out there. It’s a vulnerable thing.
Daryl Rosser: Yeah. So the way we get around that is just by actually doing it. Like we set up a one page site. We don’t care. It’s not a big deal and we’re already sending, I think CJ is doing 10 video audits a day so sending a 10 minute video to businesses. 10 of them a day, basically helping them out a little bit and offering to get on the call if they need more help. Then reaching out to people in my circle and everything.
Matt Diggity: Sweet man. That sounds like a lot of fun. Keep us updated on how that comes along and I’m sure that your game plan. It’s like a case study, right?
Daryl Rosser: Yeah exactly.
Matt Diggity: Cool, cool. Let’s talk a little bit about, you over these years, at least I’ve known you, you’ve kind of established yourself as an SEO educator. At what point in time did you tell yourself, I’m really enjoying this SEO stuff. When did you decide like I want to give back? I want to start training other people and sharing this with other people. When did that turn over in your head?
Daryl Rosser: I started Lion’s Zeal, originally it was just a group. It was no blog or anything like that. It was maybe 2014. So 2013 I did okay. 2014 it started to actually work. I cleared six figures that year, which is okay as a start. I started like a little mastermind on Facebook.
Hey, want to meet some people? Let’s get some people together who are doing some SEO stuff and just kind of meet them and talk to them and stuff like that. So I started this group and it was like five, 10, 15 people. It was like tiny. It was a really tiny group that I just met some people in. We just chatted SEO and stuff like that.
Eventually I came up with this idea, this is the horrible honest truth about why I launched a blog. I had this idea that I was going to launch an SEO hosting company, kind of like easy blog networks. Same sort of time of this EBM launch actually. I had this idea, oh why don’t I just buy all these shell hosting companies and stick people on them.
It just made sense, it was how everyone was hosting even back then. I never ended up launching it. I was working with my friend. It never ended up happening but what I did do in the process of getting ready to launch it was to start a blog where I shared some cool PBN ideas and hosting ideas and stuff like that.
People liked the blog and so I just kept sharing stuff and people kept reading it so I pretty much continued it and I curated the group from there and the group started growing. It’s been pretty fast, right? I went to 15 members to now like 12,000, like so fast.
Matt Diggity: Yeah, that is true. So educate me. So Lion’s Zeal is the group right? So Scientific Ranking is the education product, is that true?
Daryl Rosser: Yeah, we have a few different products. Scientific Rankings is the SEO training. So that’s the $67 a month training where it’s basically a community in Slack and then we have a bunch of training videos and then we release a brand new training every single month with a guest expert.
That’s like where we do most of the SEO training. We also have my A to C training, A to C immersion, which is like a high end product basically to show people how to do an A to C, kind of like how I did it and how I recommend people do it today.
Lion’s Zeal itself is like the blog, the group, the show and anything like that.
Matt Diggity: You’ve done SEO training yourself before. I think you’re involved in Marketing Inc, right?
Daryl Rosser: Yeah I was one of their LA students yeah.
Matt Diggity: Very cool. Very cool. Good guys over there. So what do you think is different about your course or scientific rankings for example than other courses? What have you tried to do differently?
Daryl Rosser: I’m trying to answer this without sounding egotistical but the general idea is I would say I’m pretty good at breaking stuff down in a way that people can actually understand it, whether they are advanced, intermediate, or beginner. I’d like to think I’m pretty good at breaking stuff down for people so they can actually understand it.
So on top of that, one part is just that I can break stuff down pretty well and people understand it. The other part is through the show and the group and anything like that, I’ve got a pretty good network now of SEOs that are amazing at what they do. So, I think bring on different people that, not just like I’m a pretty good SEO yes but I’m not the best at everything.
So I can bring on my friend that’s really good at foreign SEO. I can bring on a guy that’s really good at outreach. I can bring on a guy that’s really good at PDNs. I can bring on people that I think are the best at each of these different parts and then have them teach what they know best.
Matt Diggity: Sounds like the best of both worlds. I can attest to what you’re saying. You are really good at breaking things down and putting it in a nice, easy to digest format. Your PBN game is solid. Solid bro. Well you’re putting out a lot of content. I mean the podcast that you do is a lot. You have this course. How do you balance that with actually doing SEO?
How Mr X scales his time so he doesn’t need to do SEO himself
Daryl Rosser: There are two parts I guess. I keep saying that. One part is that the podcast is like an hour an week. I record an intro. It takes me an hour and a half to do the whole episode. I have an editor. It’s not that time consuming in itself but jumping between the group and chatting with people and doing the webinars and stuff.
It kind of adds up I guess. So the second part is I’m not doing that much SEO these days. I have contractors and I’ve hired people and stuff. I don’t do that much.
It was kind of a big realization for me this year I think that I don’t need to be setting up PBNs and stuff. I wasn’t setting up PBNS before. I had contracts for that anyways but I can step back more and more. Even like renting links. You don’t need to build it in PBN anymore.
You can. It’s good. When I started out it was my big thing, I’m going to build up my own PBN. I’m going to have this asset but now I’ve gone and started over again. No way. I would not build my own PBN. I would just go right to the links. It’s so much easier.
Matt Diggity: I wouldn’t wish PBN management on my worst enemy. It’s hell. I agree with you there. Cool. It makes a lot of sense. Just to, I want to give my two sense here, like what a lot of people don’t realize is at a certain level in SEO, it becomes completely scalable and outsourceable.
There are only so many niches you can get into. You’re not going to set up PBNs like you said, so it can be completely outsourced. So what else are you going to do with your time? Do you what you love. You love teaching. I love, I’m not really sure yet but that’s great that you found your passion for teaching and giving back.
What about, like who are you learning from yourself? What kind of blogs do you read or are you currently in any courses or masterminds?
Daryl Rosser: In terms of SEO, not really in any courses or I’m in my group I guess so there’s mine. But not particularly. There are no really specific blogs or anything I read anymore. I guess I’ve got a network now. I’m just chatting with people all the time and finding out what works.
Just from naturally having a lot of friends that are doing this stuff so everyone is chatting and sharing stuff and that’s kind of how I figured out in terms of SEO. In terms of buying training stuff, like for what I’m doing growing Lion’s Zeal and building up a team and stuff, I’m constantly buying training courses. If I want to do something better, I just go buy a course on it.
I didn’t buy a course on how to do interviews, but as an example, just like that again, why not just go buy a course in that and find someone that is really good at that, then buy a training on that and like webinars. I sucked at webinars. I’ll go find someone that can teach me how to do webinars. It makes sense.
Matt Diggity: It does make a lot of sense. 100%. Here is a hypothetical questions. Let’s say you are going to be the headmaster of a school of SEO. What professors would you hire to teach it? Who do you think is teaching SEO well?
Daryl Rosser: You?
Matt Diggity: Okay. That wasn’t a set up. But thank you.
Daryl Rosser: Who else is teaching it? I guess Five Patrol Diggy, awesome guys. I guess Charles does some pretty good stuff actually.
Matt Diggity: Yeah, yeah. He lays it out pretty good. He’s a bright kid for sure.
Daryl Rosser: I don’t really follow that many SEOs these days. That’s it that I actively watch I think.
Matt Diggity: We have Glen the dean of Agency. We’ve got Charles the black hat director of SEO. Okay got it. Cool. Let’s talk about your interviews like the podcasts themselves. Like I’m pretty interested in this question. At the beginning of this series, not trying to put you on the spot, but you were pretty shy and I’ve seen you blossom into a very confident interviewer.
Actually, pretty accomplished and you ask really good questions now. What was that transition like? You said you didn’t do a course, so tell me more about this transformation.
Daryl Rosser: I started off and I had no idea how to do an interview. I don’t script anything to this day. I just kind of hit record and just hey how’s it going. Welcome to the show. Let me make a couple questions up on the spot. So, it was just kind of going for it in the beginning and honestly I can’t feel the transition so to speak.
It just kind of happens. I don’t really know. People tell me that I’m suddenly good at it now but I don’t know why. I don’t know. I just practiced. I didn’t really deliberately change anything to be honest. I just, I guess I got more confident.
Matt Diggity: Powered through it and it just came. Okay, got it. How many interviews have you done so far?
Daryl Rosser: 48.
Matt Diggity: Sheesh. Here’s a question for you. Out of 48 interviews, what do you think are the most common traits of the people that are good at SEO and are crushing it so to speak. Like what do they have in common? What have you seen come up a lot?
Daryl Rosser: I guess the whole general sort of mind set of stuff is the easy starting point, which is that everyone is kind of like a go getter right? I see that the biggest difference between the people that are doing really well and the people who are struggling is that most people that I know who are doing well just get on with stuff.
They have an idea, oh I’m going to build this affiliate site. They don’t spend three months studying how to do it the best way, they just and build a site. The biggest difference I see, especially when I hear their stories is that they just went out, they had an idea and just got shit done and just got on with it.
I’m not sure what else. Everyone kind of does different stuff. One guy will go out there and build a massive team or I interviewed a guy who had 80 people working for him and another person who has bunch of contractors and is out for themselves.
Aside from that, businesses, different types of businesses, how they monetize it is different, work ethic is different. I guess pretty much everyone has that good mind set and most of them are pretty committed to work hard at least initially. Even if they want to take it easy now, they still work their asses off initially.
Matt Diggity: So get up off your ass. Get rid of analysis paralysis as soon as possible and just start chugging it. You can’t disagree with that working, that’s for sure. When you think of a successful SEO, if you put your mind to it. Someone said, Daryl who do you think is a successful SEO, who comes to mind for you? Who do you think has it figured out pretty well? Please you’re not allowed to say me.
Daryl Rosser: You guys, your team, Jay and Edgar, you guys are clued in for sure. There are different types in our space. Like I wouldn’t call myself one of the best SEO’s. There are other guys as well I wouldn’t call the best SEO’s.
Maybe Jonathan at PBM Butler and guys like that but I would say some guys are very good at business and selling SEO and different stuff like that. You can make just as much money sometimes more in some cases by being very good at the business side of things, not just the SEO.
I think sometimes we get way too caught up trying to be an amazing SEO when you don’t really need to be. You can just write some links by some different services or different providers and kind of sort it.
Matt Diggity: Not trying to read into what you say but the ability to scale, right? Maybe leverage other people and play on what you are good at. It could be business. It could be ranking or whatever that might be right?
Daryl Rosser: Exactly. You don’t need to be the best SEO and you don’t need to be good at sales if that’s not your thing. Just find what works for you.
Matt Diggity: Sure, sure. Makes a lot of sense. Who haven’t you interviewed that you would like to bring on?
Daryl Rosser: Still trying to convince Glen to come on the show. I don’t want to put him on the spot though. I shouldn’t have said that. But I still want to get him to come on.
Matt Diggity: Yeah I’d like to see Glen too. For sure. How about some rapid fire questions? Just related to SEO and maybe the future of SEO in general. What are you doing to rank these days? What are your ranking tactics?
Daryl Rosser: Nothing insane. On page PBNs, social signals, social profiles, more on page like nothing too crazy or unique.
Matt Diggity: Sure. I mean that’s what works, right? What do you think about the future of PBNs? Do you think they are going to be around for much longer? Do you think we’ve got some time on our hands?
Daryl Rosser: I guess the general concept can’t really stop working because it’s just sites that link to you, we just happen to own them. So I think it’s transitioning more and more today where it’s become more about having real sites basically where like you have traffic and stuff on it and some people are even monetizing them and stuff.
So no matter what, they are still going to be around. Maybe over time they get more and more expensive to build up high quality ones but there is still going to be around but maybe not everyone is going to do it because it’s going to come, and I’m talking years and years down the line, it could be come much, much more expensive to build up a legit site but as of right now, it’s still working pretty well. I would say it’s more expensive than when I started out but it’s working pretty well.
Matt Diggity: Absolutely. Are you doing anything right now to future proof yourself? Dabbling around into any outreach or anything like that?
Daryl Rosser: Not yet. I’d like to start playing around with outreach. As of right now no. I have a friend who teaches it, Dan Rey, he teaches that stuff and I went through his course and it seems pretty interesting but no, it’s like a whole different fear. Like I’m really good at PBNs. I kind of have been doing this now for four years. I could just get it. Starting an outreach team is a completely different business, a completely different business, a different thing to learn.
Matt Diggity: How I feel about it is kind of like back in the day when GSA was the modus operandi for ranking like who made money? The money running GSA or the person thinking about what’s the next thing that is going to rank?
It’s the spammer that made the money, right? And when the shift happens and GSA stops working then we can worry about it and shift over. I’m not saying to dismiss the idea, future proofing yourself is always a good idea for any business.
Let’s see. What SEO software for you is a must have? If this software didn’t exist, you would probably quit SEO. Is there anything like that?
Daryl Rosser: Not particularly. I mean just rank trackers in general. That’s about it. I’m trying to think. I don’t really use much software for SEO. Not these days.
Matt Diggity: Okay. All right. How about last November we had our mastermind and what was your biggest take away from there?
Daryl Rosser: Add two. Add more recurring streams to what I’m already doing. So start it as a one time and then switch it to recurring. Then scale like building a team hence the big push for hiring apprentices and scaling up a real time and stuff like that.
Matt Diggity: I think we can properly say that you’re executing pretty well. Good job man. Let’s talk about your life. Why Saigon? Tell us about living in … what do we call it? Saigon or Ho Chi Minh City? What’s the right term?
Daryl Rosser: I say Saigon. It’s just easier to say.
Matt Diggity: So why do you live in Saigon?
Daryl Rosser: I just like it. I was in Chiang Mai for seven months, Bangkok for three months. It’s kind of like a hybrid between the two I guess. Bigger than Chiang Mai but it’s a little bit too small and laid back for my liking.
I still love the place but wanted something a little bit more happening and more crazy. But not insane like Bangkok. Just kind of a mix between the two and you also get a lot of cool people here, the coffee shop culture, and I have a great set up. I’ve got a decent enough apartment. It was just so easy to get around and do everything. I like it.
Matt Diggity: This is my second time here. I think it’s pretty frickin rad here. The meet up last night was great.
Daryl Rosser: Yeah, it was really fun.
Matt Diggity: Where are you from in the UK? What city are you from?
Daryl Rosser: Town? My home town is called Corby, which is a town of about 60,000 people. The county it’s in for anyone who doesn’t know that is North Hamptonshire.
Matt Diggity: Okay. Would you ever go back there?
Daryl Rosser: No. I mean I go back to see my family for a week or two.
Matt Diggity: What about the UK? Do you ever picture yourself moving back to Europe or the UK or anything like that?
Daryl Rosser: Maybe one day. Not in the next 10 years. Maybe one day.
Matt Diggity: Okay. All right. So you must be scouting around. I mean you’ve jumped from Chiang Mai, Bangkok, to Saigon. What country is next on your list to scout out? Is there anything interesting for you?
Daryl Rosser: To travel to? A lot of people. I haven’t even travelled Europe much really. I want to go to Amsterdam in the summer and maybe some other places around Europe. There is no reason. It’s on my doorstep almost but I never really travel in Europe much. I’d like to go to China at some point. Japan definitely. South Korea. A lot of places I still haven’t been to.
Matt Diggity: Well there’s plenty of time for that. You’re just 24. Cool. I think anyone can say there is no doubt about, you’re a really hard worker. What is your motivation? What is this all for?
Daryl Rosser: Because I like it I guess? I am inspired by, I’ll see a story or something or I’ll hear someone or like Ray Krock, the founder of McDonald’s. I heard this story that he was working until the day he died. Some people think oh that’s awful.
That poor guy. I’m thinking wow that’s cool. I wish I found something I loved doing so much that until the minute I died, I’m still wanting to do it more importantly. That’s inspiring to me. After a certain point, my life isn’t going to still improve but living in Southeast Asia, any more money won’t improve my lifestyle really at all.
Like I don’t spend everything now because you don’t need to. But it’s about doing something you really enjoy doing and the challenge and like my gaming background.
I guess I kind of like the challenge of growing something and doing new things. Also, I guess because I lost everything before, I’m terrified of that ever happening again. I want to have so much money and freedom available to me that that will never happen even if everything somehow died tomorrow, which
I highly doubt will happen, in terms of my businesses and everything, I want to be so secure and set up so that can never, ever happen to me.
Matt Diggity: I actually have that same … maybe it’s an emotional crutch. Pretty sure it’s not an advantage. It’s a fear but it drives me as well. Like what if this all vanished kind of thing? So it’s kind of a motivator in itself, right?
If you weren’t doing SEO, what do you think you might be doing?
Daryl Rosser: Some form of online marketing I guess. That’s a cop out but all right … Facebook ads and stuff is a really cool thing as well. Like I’m really into just marketing in general so I mean if SEO as an industry just vanished maybe if it all shut down and all the other search engines shut down tomorrow, I would be looking into other advertising and Facebook ads would be pretty good. Stuff like that.
Matt Diggity: Yeah, there is many flavours of this, right? You’ve got email marketing, FBA, drop shipping. Yeah, cool. So you’re sold. You’re doing something online.
Daryl Rosser: I love marketing.
Matt Diggity: Some kind of marketing online. Okay, that’s cool. At the LCT conference this year we were doing an ask me anything session and Holly Starks came up with a really good question. She just paused everything and she asked the other speakers, where do you see yourself in five years? What does that look like for you Daryl? What is five years going to look like?
Daryl Rosser: I can’t say. Obviously I can’t say for sure but I don’t know that well because it’s such a long time. I guess the general sort of idea is having a decent sort of team that can handle a lot of the work for me even though I’ll still be involved with it but I want to be kind of more what I’m already doing today.
So my position has become more and more about being a strategizer and I love that I can take on a project, come up with an idea, and it just gets done. So I can map out a plan. Like oh I’d love to build up this new site or I’d like to go buy this site and multiply the revenue or something like that and I just map out the overall plan.
Okay we’re going to do content marketing here. We’re going to do the SEO here. We’re going to build an email list here. Whatever. I have a team of people that are fully capable of doing all the different parts of it and I can just kind of plan it all out and it gets done.
Matt Diggity: You sure you don’t want to go back to building PBNs? That’s not in your future? Just kidding. Yeah, that sounds good. At a certain point, when you reach that experience level that’s the most valuable place to put your time. Is that not right?
Daryl Rosser: Exactly. It’s kind of a waste of time sometimes to. I’ve been cutting a lot more out this year. So I’ve recorded a screen for a video for like 10 minutes. Like screen recording and then for some reason I feel the need to edit it, which will only take me maybe five or 10 minutes but why would I spent five or 10 minutes, when I can go pay an editor now. So maybe I pay $10 for someone to do it for me.
Matt Diggity: Are you a control freak a little bit? I am. How about some Tim Ferris style interview questions. What is something you think or you believe in that everyone else thinks is weird or crazy?
Daryl Rosser: Honestly it’s got to be work ethic. I guess it’s the weirdest thing. People ask me, well what do you do for fun and it’s like I work? I don’t do that much. I work most of the day and now I just got a PS4, so I play a little PS4 sometimes but not too much, like an hour most of the day. I don’t do that much.
When I’m not working, I just hang out with a girlfriend or friends or something like that. I’m not big partying or anything. I can be sometimes but only for like a day or two every year. That’s about it. I don’t do that much.
I just like to work a lot. People are always kind of surprised. But like don’t you like to hang out or go drinking or go partying? No, I just like to work. It’s just what I do.
Matt Diggity: It’s a true story. I saw this guy last night. We were at a bar and he was drinking water all night. What are some of your favourite books related to business?
Daryl Rosser: It depends what stage you’re at. The E-Myth was really, really great at a certain time when I was just starting off on my SEO stuff.
I had a few thousands a month coming in and I was like okay this is perfect because it got me thinking about hiring VA’s and stuff like that which is a first move. I originally hired real team members but it took me a few years to realize that. But that was a good book.
The Four Hour Work Week was actually really good. I re-read that last year or the year before and it got me thinking again. I have an assistant, an executive assistant. I don’t know what you call her. She’s in the Philippines but she is a boss and she helps me plan out everything.
I just back from Penang yesterday and Malaysia. I just mentioned to her, hey can you help me find a hotel, flights, and things to do in Penang. She found me the hotel. I booked the one that she recommended. It was good. Found me some stuff to do. I didn’t really do any of it. At least it was there. And found me the flights, which is the only direct flight there was.
Matt Diggity: You’re truly doing that four hour work week. What is it A for automation or something like that? Nice man.
Daryl Rosser: Yeah I don’t remember.
Matt Diggity: How about favourite books related to life?
Daryl Rosser: It’s always hard to remember books on the spot. I like some kind of weird books sometimes I guess. I don’t know if it’s a favourite but I quite like Eckhart Tolle’s books like that guy’s books are kind of weird but also good. If you get past the weirdness, it’s actually good content.
Matt Diggity: Content. It’s so funny you call it that. The Power of Now is content. Hilarious.
Daryl Rosser: It’s good stuff, in the books. The Power of Now and The New Earth. I like that one a little bit more I think. But they are both good and kind of, I guess the spiritual stuff like that or just more conscious of what we’re thinking about and doing and stuff is actually useful especially when you’re trying to run a business and all the stress that goes with that.
Matt Diggity: Yeah we’re going pretty hard on the business side so it takes something really strong spiritually to kind of balance that out. I agree 100%. The Power of Now is a solid book. I definitely recommend it too. What kind of nerd are you? Are you a fantasy nerd? Do you like sci-fi? Do you not like that kind of stuff at all?
Daryl Rosser: I’m not as nerdy as people would think in some of that respect.
Matt Diggity: Disappointing.
Daryl Rosser: Yeah not that much. Like I’ve never watched Star Trek before. I’ve watched all the Star Wars movies of course. They are awesome. Like comic books. I don’t know anything about comic books. My girlfriend sometimes talks about comic books and I’m like I don’t know what that is. I don’t know who that character is. I watched One Punch? Do you know that?
My girlfriend was showing me the TV show. Oh, this is actually kind of cool after one episode. Originally I thought it was kind of weird and shitty. But I saw an episode and I was like oh, this is actually kind of cool. I watched every single episode ever made of that. But I’m not that nerdy in that stuff. I’m kind of a nerd still.
Matt Diggity: Fair enough. I literally saw you have a watch in Marvel vs. Capcom so there is some nerd in you. What are your morning rituals? Like when you wake up in the morning, do you do anything special?
Daryl Rosser: No. I should but I also realized I don’t need to so I always try to be really fancy and try all these rituals and it kind of works but not really. I’m kind of being lazy now so I’m sleeping in till 10 or 11 and then I get up, get showered, play on my laptop for a little bit.
Maybe do some work. I usually have Facebook and stuff blocked out. I have timeline hidden anyways all the time and I usually have that blocked anyways, so I don’t access it up until after 12. So I don’t wake up and start slacking off on Facebook. I’ve been trying to cut down my social media usage and stuff.
Like on Instagram I un-followed every single person on Instagram so I don’t have a feed anymore so it can’t distract me. Stuff like that. I’m trying to cut down on that stuff because I like to slack off but I like to do it on something I can enjoy more so I’m trying to cut down on everything. Wasting time on my Instagram is not really enjoyable. It’s just something to do when you’re bored or distracted. I just get rid of that stuff.
But in terms of the morning, no. Get up. Shower. Brush my teeth and stuff. Play with my laptop a little bit. Eat some food because I get food delivered every day and then head off to work at a coffee shop til like 2 pm.
Matt Diggity: Cool. That brings me to a second question. You just said you got your food delivered every day. It must be pretty low cost of living here in Saigon. What would you say is the bare minimum to get by in Saigon?
Daryl Rosser: I don’t know. $1200, $1500 a month I guess. Maybe not bare minimum. It may be lower than that. Minium depends on your standard, right? I’m sure people can get by on hundreds a month. I just wouldn’t recommend it.
Matt Diggity: Okay. How about the next level? What income is required to pretty much do whatever you want and have food delivered to your apartment every morning?
Daryl Rosser: $2000? $2500 maybe?
Matt Diggity: That’s a really good value for sure. Chiang Mai is about the same. That’s why we’re kind of hooked on these places, right?
Daryl Rosser: It definitely helps.
Matt Diggity: If you could go in a time machine and go back and give little Daryl some advice, what would you tell to little Daryl?
Daryl Rosser: How little?
Matt Diggity: Let’s say its 16 year old Daryl that is starting to get mixed up in internet marketing.
Daryl Rosser: In one way I’d give some advice on building something bigger because when you’re 16, I could spent eight years on some big project before it took off and I’d be where I am today but I probably would be further ahead because of longer terms and I’ve been working on it for eight years.
So on one level I would say think longer terms but trying to build something that is going to make you $100K next month, because even if you make $100K next month, it’s not that long term. I want something that’s going to be worth tens of millions, hundreds of millions, whatever. To build something bigger. But on another level, it kind of turned out okay so I don’t want to screw it up.
Matt Diggity: Yeah right? You could have caused a paradox in this situation and never made anything out of your internet career if you didn’t have that failure. You grew out of it for sure. I completely agree. Go with something scalable and long term. Cool. Any last parting words for your audience? Any advice you want to give them or maybe a pitch or something?
Daryl Rosser: No. If they want pitch, they know where to go. I do enough of that, every day in my emails. I try not to sound cliché because the last advice is always cliché and it’s proven not to be because that’s what you can think of on the spot.
But the general idea is that I guess the concept could be that one realization that I made that makes me a lot more money is just by asking more people for money and putting more offers out there and just doing stuff that’s going to make you money. So cut everything else.
This is why, I’m not against building a PBN, it’s still a cool idea but I am encouraging people not to because you spend 80% of your time building a PBN, which isn’t what brings in the money. You make the money from ranking the sites. You make the money from selling to the clients.
Don’t spend 80% of your time building a tool that you can use to grow your business. Just spend 80% of your time on the things that actually make you money and that could be picking up the phone and calling people, it could be calling out new affiliate sites and paying writers and stuff like that, and strategizing the keywords and stuff. Whatever it is.
Find out whatever it is that’s going to make you money and focus as much as you possibly can on just that.
Matt Diggity: 100%. Great words of advice. Well I just wanted to say it’s been an honour to be in this seat and asking you questions. Thanks for sharing. I’m sure your audience is very thankful too. Let’s go have a good night tonight in Saigon.
Daryl Rosser: Thanks man. It’s been really fun.
Matt Diggity: Peace.